The Irish Cob

The Irish Cob & Gypsy Cob

There are two Traditional Cob breed types. One Traditional Cob breed type is the Irish Cob (the ‘Irish type’ Traditional Cob), and the other Traditional Cob breed type is the Gypsy Cob (the 'English type Traditional Cob).

Protecting both types

The Traditional Cob Registry (TCR) is in Ireland (ROI), and TCR aims to protect both Traditional Cob breed types by registering and judging the Irish Cob and Gypsy Cob separately as two different Traditional Cob breed types.

Misleading Facebook claims

Misleading claims have been made on Facebook that the Traditional Cob Registry (TCR) in Ireland (ROI) makes no sense because the Gypsy Cob (the ‘English type’ Traditional Cob) is the only Traditional Cob and that the Traditional Gypsy Cob Association (TGCA) in England (UK) already registers the Gypsy Cob (aka Traditional Gypsy Cob).

Such misleading claims made on Facebook are incorrect, not only because there are two Traditional Cob breed types (the Irish Cob and Gypsy Cob), but because they also discredit TCR in Ireland (ROI) and hamper TCR efforts to ensure that Ireland's Irish Cob (the ‘Irish type’ Traditional Cob) is recognised worldwide as the original Traditional Cob.

FACT

The Irish Cob Studbook in Ireland (ROI) was the first Traditional Cob register in the world

The Irish Cob Studbook
1ST - IRELAND (ROI)
18th July 1996

The Gypsy Vanner Horse Studbook
2ND - USA
24th November 1996

The Tinker Studbook
3RD - HOLLAND
March 1999

The Traditional Gypsy Cob Studbook
4TH - ENGLAND (UK)
2012

The Irish Cob Studbook

The original (aka ‘1990s’) Traditional Cob was created in Ireland (ROI) by Irish Travellers (and some Irish farmers). It is therefore because Ireland (ROI) is the country of origin of the Traditional Cob, that the Irish Cob Studbook (the first Traditional Cob register in the world) was officially recognised in Ireland (ROI) on 18th July 1996. The Irish Cob Society (ICS) - the body that was established for the purpose of being registered as Keeper of the Irish Cob Studbook - was therefore officially approved in Ireland (ROI) on 16th July 1998 to maintain the Irish Cob Studbook as the studbook of origin of the breed (the EU mother Irish Cob studbook). The Irish Cob Breed Standard (the original Traditional Cob breed standard) was authored by Evelyn Flynn (previously Evelyn Murphy) for the Irish Cob Studbook.

18^th July 1996 is not only the day on which the Irish Cob Studbook (the first register in the world for the Traditional Cob) was officially recognised (documented) in Ireland (ROI), it is also the day on which Ireland’s Traditional Cob was officially named in Ireland (in the country of origin of the breed) as the Irish Cob.

The Gypsy Vanner Studbook

Although the Irish Cob Studbook had already been officially recognised in Ireland (in the country of origin of the breed) on 18th July 1996, the Gypsy Vanner Horse Society (GVHS) in the USA incorrectly claims that when the Gypsy Vanner Horse Studbook was founded in the USA on 24th November 1996, that GVHS documented (branded) an unknown and undiscovered (unclaimed) breed with the name Gypsy Vanner Horse. GVHS, therefore, also incorrectly claims that all other names (including Irish Cob) came after 24^th November 1996.

Although it was Irish Travellers (and some Irish farmers) who created the original (aka ‘1990s’) Traditional Cob (Irish Cob) in Ireland (ROI) and therefore in the officially recognised country of origin of the breed, GVHS also incorrectly claims that the original (and only) Traditional Cob was created in England and Wales (UK) by Gypsies (Romani people who are officially named Roma). However, it was unregistered Irish Cobs from Ireland (ROI) that GVHS bought in England and Wales (UK) from Roma that were the founder stallions and mares for the Gypsy Vanner Horse in the USA. Gypsy Vanner Horse is therefore a second unofficial name (unofficial brand) given to Ireland's already officially named (officially branded) Irish Cob.

NOTE: It is apparent that when GVHS founded the Gypsy Vanner Studbook in the USA on 24th November 1996 they were not aware that the breed was far from being an unknown and undiscovered (unclaimed) breed, because they did not know that the Irish Cob Studbook had been officially recognised in Ireland (ROI) on 18th July 1996, or that before 18th July 1996 the breed had already been established as one of the top five leisure horses in Europe (including in Holland, Germany, France, Sweden, Finland and Denmark).

The Tinker Studbook

In October 1999, the Dutch Studbook for Tinkers NSvT was established. And, in March 2000, the Dutch Studbook for Tinkers was officially recognised in Holland (the Netherlands) as the studbook of origin of the breed (EU mother Tinker studbook). However, because it was unregistered Irish Cobs from Ireland (ROI) that were the founder stallions and mares for Tinker in Holland (the Netherlands), Tinker is a second official name given to Ireland's Traditional Cob (Irish Cob). NSvT should therefore not have been officially approved in Holland (the Netherlands) to maintain a second EU mother studbook for Ireland's Irish Cob.

The Traditional Gypsy Cob Studbook

In 2005, the Traditional Gypsy Cob Association (TGCA) in England (UK) founded an independent (non-passport issuing) Traditional Gypsy Cob Studbook. And, in 2012, TGCA was officially approved in England (UK) to maintain the Traditional Gypsy Cob Studbook as the studbook of origin of the breed (the EU mother Traditional Cob studbook) and therefore to issue passports for Traditional Gypsy Cobs in the EU.

The reason it was right for TGCA to be officially approved in England (UK) to maintain the Traditional Gypsy Cob Studbook as the studbook of the origin of the breed (the EU mother Traditional Cob studbook) is because the Irish Cob and Gypsy Cob (which TGCA registers as the Traditional Gypsy Cob) are not the same. That is why the Irish Cob (the 'Irish type' Traditional Cob) and the Traditional Gypsy Cob (the 'English type' Traditional Cob) have different breed standards.

The Irish Cob Breed Standard, which was authored in Ireland (ROI) by Evelyn Flynn (formerly Evelyn Murphy) for the Irish Cob Studbook, is the original (first) Traditional Cob breed standard (for the 'Irish type' Traditional Cob). The Traditional Gypsy Cob Breed Standard, which was authored in England (UK) by TGCA, is a second Traditional Cob breed standard (for the 'English type' Traditional Cob).

From the time the UK left the EU in 2020, the Traditional Gypsy Cob Studbook in England (UK) has no longer been the studbook of origin of the breed (the EU mother Traditional Cob studbook). From 2020, TGCA could therefore only issue passports for Traditional Cobs in the UK. What this means is that from 2020, TGCA could only issue unofficial TGCA registration books for Traditional Gypsy Cobs in countries outside the UK (including in Ireland, France, Canada, the USA, Australia, and any other countries outside the UK). Any claim made by TGCA that they issue passports for Traditional Gypsy Cob outside the UK would therefore be incorrect and misleading.

Because the Traditional Cob Registry (TCR) in Ireland (ROI) has a register that is independent (non-passport issuing), TCR can freely issue unofficial TCR registration books (which have the very same legal status as unofficial TGCA registration books) for Traditional Cobs (Irish Cobs and Gypsy Cobs) in any country in the world.

NOTE: Although all of the founder Gypsy Vanner Horses in the USA were unregistered Irish Cobs ('Irish type' Traditional Cobs) from Ireland (ROI) that GVHS bought in Wales and England (UK), GVHS collaborates with TGCA in England (UK) because GVHS believes that the original (and only) Traditional Cob is the Gypsy Cob (aka Traditional Gypsy Cob) that was developed in Wales and England (UK) by Gypsies (who are officially named Roma). As a result, the Irish Cob (the foundation Traditional Cob for the Gypsy Vanner Horse in the USA) is being replaced by the Gypsy Cob/Traditional Gypsy Cob (the 'English type' Traditional Cob) in the Gypsy Vanner Horse Studbook. It is no wonder that breeders in the USA are wondering why the Gypsy Vanner Horse has changed so much since 1996.

All Traditional Cobs Have Irish roots

All Traditional Cobs in the world (no matter what they are called - Irish Cobs, Tinkers, Gypsy Cobs, Traditional Gypsy Cobs, Gypsy Vanner Horses) are either Traditional Cobs from Ireland, or the descendants of Traditional Cobs from Ireland, and all Traditional Cobs in the world therefore share the same Irish ancestral roots.

The Traditional Cob

Although the Irish Cob and Gypsy Cob are the same breed (Traditional Cob) and therefore share the same Traditional Cob breed characteristics – a powerful compact build, ample muscle and bone, large joints and an abundance of mane, tail and leg hair/feathering – the main difference between the two Traditional Cob breed types (the Irish Cob and Gypsy Cob) is structural.

Ireland’s Traditional Cob (Irish Cob) is the original (aka ‘1990s’) Traditional Cob that was created by Irish Travellers (and some Irish farmers) in Ireland (ROI). The original (aka ‘1990s’) Traditional Cob of Ireland (Irish Cob) is an athletically built, medium to heavy boned (and therefore medium to heavy feathered) all-purpose (ride and drive) Traditional Cob that is Standard (Cob) sized (14.2 hands to 15.2 hands) and Large (Horse) sized (15.3 hands to 16.2 hands). The original (aka ‘1990s’) Traditional Cob of Ireland (Irish Cob) was rarely Small (Pony) sized (under 14.2 hands) and not encouraged to be under 14.2 hands. Because the original (aka ‘1990s’) Traditional Cob of Ireland (Irish Cob) was also predominantly piebald (black and white), the breed was generally referred to by Irish Travellers as ‘The Piebald’.

It is because the Traditional Cob was created in Ireland (ROI) by Irish Travellers outside of the known (recorded) world equine breeding programmes decades before the 1990s, that Ireland's Traditional Cob did not have a register in Ireland in which they could be registered (documented) with their breed name (Irish Cob). Some of the famous Traditional Cob (Irish Cob) stallions exported from Ireland without having had any breed registration papers issued in Ireland are: The Lion King, The Road Sweeper, The Paddy Horse, The Coal Horse, Bob The Blagdon, The Sham, Shampoo Boy, The Lob-Eared Horse (aka The Lob), Old Henry, Eddie Alcocks Old Black Horse of Ireland, The Checkity Horse, The Old Horse Of Ireland, The Old Paddy Horse, The Kerry Horse, and Sonny Mays.

Irish Cob Breed Standard and History

Although before the 1990s, Irish Cobs were used by Irish Travellers to pull their wagons, they were also used as work horses in Ireland on farms and in cities. However, because of its uniqueness as a medium to heavy boned draught horse with an athletic riding horse structure, and because of its unique captivating appearance, by the mid 1990s the Irish Cob (which was officially recognised in Ireland on 16th July 1996) had become one of the top five all-purpose (ride and drive) leisure horses throughout Europe (including in Holland, Germany, France, Sweden, Finland and Denmark).

The Drum Horse

The Drum Horse is a Large (15.3 hands to 16.2 hands) Irish Cob that is not under 16 hands, or a Part Bred Irish Cob (Irish Cob x Shire or Clydesdale) that is not under 16 hands, and that is therefore big enough (as well as visually impressive enough) to carry a set of drums smaller than the kettle drums used by the Life Guards of the British Royal Household Cavalry in England.

The Classic Drum Horse

The Classic Drum Horse is an Oversize (16.3 hands and over) Irish Cob, or a Part Bred Irish Cob (Irish Cob x Shire or Clydesdale) that is 16.3 hands or over, and that is therefore big enough (as well as visually impressive enough) to carry a set of kettle drums used by the Life Guards of the British Royal Household Cavalry in England.

Almost all of the Classic Drum Horses originally used by the Life Guards of the British Royal Household Cavalry in England (UK) were Oversize (from 16.3 hands) Irish Cobs, or Part Bred Irish Cobs (Irish Cobs x Shires or Clydesdales) that were imported to England (UK) from Ireland (ROI).

NOTE: Although a purebred Irish Cob (Large or Oversize) is big enough to be a Drum Horse or Classic Drum Horse (as is a purebred Shire or Clydesdale), because the upper height limit of the Gypsy Cob (aka Traditional Gypsy Cob) is 15.2 hands a purebred Gypsy Cob is not big enough to be a Drum Horse or Classic Drum Horse. It is for this reason that only a Part Bred Gypsy Cob (Gypsy x Shire or Clydesdale) could be a Drum Horse or Classic Drum Horse. It is therefore because a Drum Horse (which should be a minimum of 16 hands) is described as a Gypsy x Shire or Clydesdale in the USA that so many undersized (under 16 hands) Drum Horses are being registered in the USA.

The Gypsy Cob

The Gypsy Cob was developed by Roma in England (UK), by selectively breeding Ireland’s Traditional Cob (Irish Cob) to maximise the stockiness and very heavy bone and feather that The Lion King, The Lob, The Old Black Horse (and other such stallions) brought to the Irish Cob, to reduce the height of the Irish Cob, and to add driving cob characteristics attributed to the Welsh Cob including more of of a driving cob type shoulder, withers and chest and a sweeter (‘Welsh type’) head.

The Gypsy Cob is mostly Small (Pony) sized (13.1 hands to 14.1 hands) and Mini (Pony) sized (under 13 hands), but is also Standard (Cob) sized (14.2 hands to 15.2 hands).

Some of the famous Gypsy Cob stallions bred in England by Roma are Vines Lloyds, Hercules (son of Vines Lloyds), Bullseye (son of Bob The Blagdon), SD Tornado, SD Rocking Horse, and SD Wooly Mammoth. However, Prince, The Kerryman and The Earthshaker (all sons of Hercules) were born in Ireland.

Gypsy Cob Breed Standard and History

IIRISH COB & GYPSY COB
The Difference

Although the Irish Cob and Gypsy Cob are the same breed (Traditional Cob) and therefore share the same unique Traditional Cob breed characteristics – a powerful compact build, ample muscle and bone, large joints and an abundance of mane, tail and leg hair/feathering – the main difference between the two Traditional Cob breed types is structural. Whereas the Irish Cob is a riding cob that can be driven, the Gypsy Cob is a driving cob that can be ridden. The Irish Cob and Gypsy Cob are therefore different in the following ways: -

Whereas the Irish Cob is a riding cob with a riding cob shoulder, withers and chest, the Gypsy Cob is a driving cob with a driving shoulder, withers and chest.
The Gypsy Cob can be shorter-legged, stockier, stouter, and deeper-bodied than the Irish Cob.
The Gypsy Cob would not only have a broader chest and more substantial shoulders than the Irish Cob, but the Gypsy Cob would also have rounder and broader ‘driving’ withers that would be set further back than the Irish Cob’s riding cob withers.
Because the Gypsy Cob withers would be set further back than the Irish Cob, the Gypsy Cob can have a shorter back than the Irish Cob. The Gypsy Cob croup can also be shorter than the Irish Cob and can have an angle that is slightly steeper to the tail than the Irish Cob.
Whereas the Irish Cob has a straight, handsome (noble) riding cob head, the Gypsy Cob has a 'sweeter' (more ‘Welsh’ type) head attributed to an English driving cob.
Whereas the Irish Cob is typically Standard (Cob) sized (14.2 hands to 15.2 hands) and Large (Horse) sized) (15.3 to 16.2 hands), the Gypsy Cob is typically Small (Pony) sized (13.1 hands to 14.1 hands) and Mini (Pony) sized (13 hands and under), but is also Standard (Cob) sized (14.2 hands to 15.2 hands).